On this week's Fortune Leadership Next podcast, Alan Murray and Michal Lev-Ram discuss with Circle CEO Jeremy Aller how the cryptocurrency crash of 2022 compares to the late-'90s dotcom and overvaluation of the cryptocurrencies. Speculative ownership, the future of cryptocurrency regulation, and the Serbian partnership with the UN to allow Ukrainian refugees to use USDC.
Listen to this episode or read the full transcript below.
Alan Murray: Leadership is being driven next by people at Deloitte who, like me, look at the changing levels of corporate leadership and how CEOs are responding to those changes.
Welcome to the next leadership podcast on the rules of dynamic corporate leadership. My name is Alan Murray.
Melcol Lev Ram : My name is Melcol Lev Ram. By now, we've all heard of the big crypto crash of 2022. $2 trillion was lost overnight. FTX crashed, leading to many headlines and other failures. In June 2022, the price of Bitcoin fell to $18,000, reaching an all-time high of $69,000. There's a lot to say, what's left for us here, right?
Murray: Yeah, and I think we have a total stranger to talk to about the aftermath of the accident. He is the general manager of the club. Last year the pains did not go away, the activity on the stage was halved. But this is a bit different from many types of speculative cryptocurrencies. The company makes USDC, a dollar-pegged stablecoin, and believes it is an important part of the future of this industry.
Lev-Ram: Jeremy has some very interesting parallels. Plus, you know, it's been in high-tech for decades. And he talked about what he thought was similar to what happened in the early days of the Internet: relatively low Internet traffic, high standards, however, and a rather spectacular comet bubble at the beginning. So it was really interesting to hear his take on the state of the industry, you know, some of these parallels and these incredibly fascinating headlines that we read and write. . He also told us more about the unique features of the Circle stablecoin, which helped the development of the USDC.
Murray: Another interesting thing to note here is that from the very beginning, when he founded the company 10 years ago, he was loud and clear about the need to dominate the cryptocurrency market. Many of his current peers in this market criticized him at the time. But after the tragedy, it seems that more people join him.
Lev-Ram : Yes, and just like in the early days of the internet, more regulation has created a bigger, broader, and more sustainable market. And obviously a lot of big companies have come in and we're seeing that happen, as Jeremy was talking about. We also had the opportunity to speak with him about his predictions for the future of the industry. Do you know what it will be like in 10 years? And very interesting applications. You know, I think some people still see cryptocurrency and digital payments as some kind of dark web, you know, evil thing. And he talked about the circle's partnership with the United Nations and non-governmental organizations to help Ukrainian refugees with digital payments using statcoin payments.
Murray: Let's go then. Here's our interview with Circle CEO Jeremy Aller.
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Murray: Jeremy, last year there was a disaster for crypto in general: about $2 trillion evaporated, there was a spectacular failure at FTX. Has even your best performing company club lost half its value? So after all that, tell us what's left of the cryptocurrency. What does cryptography look like from scratch?
Go: If you go back and you've been on the internet for about 30 years, you'll understand how you see all these cycles, and that's all that matters. And you know, in each of these cycles there is an excessive exuberance, an extraordinary amount of capital that leads to investments. And then you have unfulfilled expectations. And somehow, when you combine those investment cycles with strong financial conditions, especially when it comes to technologies that aren't tied to the performance of financial assets, you get a script. You often feel severe pain. We saw it in the late 90s and early 2000s, and if you use that as a comparison, where do we see ourselves? In fact, we have seen many things disappear. We have seen a lot of interesting things that look half or 80%. But what you start to see on the other side of that, with big business in power, you start to see reactions from other parts of society, so to speak, governments, regulators, etc. This is obviously going nowhere, this is very important, let's set some rules for this. So you see what's happening and I think it's very, very constructive and positive. And then the investment in technology begins to pay off. And you know, it's interesting if you look at cryptocurrencies, for example, in 2017 there was another such cycle. And then in 2018 came a kind of crypto winter. And in 2019 it was completely empty. But in fact, many of the technology investments made in 2017 and the facilities built in 2018 were encouraging for the next era of growth.
Murray : Yeah, let's wait a second for the first part, back to the rules thing. I understand your suggestion that it is an investment incentive. But in doing so, we've learned that cryptocurrencies are great for speculation, right? There are a lot of people who have made a lot of money and a lot of people who have lost a lot of money and there is a lot of active speculation. But what have we learned about its intrinsic value other than its approximate value?
Jump : I have a few things to worry about. First, if we look at what's happening today, and we're obviously in the middle of all of that, I mean, what do you think about traditional money? In other words, digital currency-denominated public debt includes these digital dollars, fiat dollar currencies. How do you use traditional money, some newly created currency or tied to a protocol that someone has created, but, you know, digital dollar for dollar, and working on these networks? And what we saw was really amazing. Even though we've been hurt by the interest rate situation, people want to take money out and put it in Treasuries or other things, as you can see, a big reduction in bank deposits of almost $900 million. It has seen a huge increase in the number of people investing in high-yield money market funds. You have seen the same movement with stablecoins, but at the same time we see more and more developers, enterprises, fintechs and shipping companies using this infrastructure. The advantage for us is this fast, global and interactive dollar settlement and, as you know, the demand for dollars in the world is very high. Interest in emerging markets where currencies are weak remains strong. So we're seeing companies as far afield as SAP integrate USDC to make commercial payments to some of the world's top money transfer companies and major payment propositions like MoneyGram. And you know, we're seeing more and more of the world's largest payment companies, we've seen recent PayPal news, but you know, Visa and MasterCard have already announced initiatives to use USDC as a settlement technology. So the technology has improved a lot. Today I see huge improvements in the importance of today's technology. And you know, that's been our mantra since last September, when we had a big event. And we make a very convincing case that we need to move from the level of crypto speculative value to the level of utility. And this level of utility value creation must be based on real money and the right availability of technologies. I think that separates us from a lot of companies that are focused on speculative investment, creating transactions, trying to get people, you know, to buy the latest new tokens. . Think about what we are trying to achieve.
Lev-Ram : Jeremy, you talked a lot about the USDC. And I wonder if you could take a step back and talk to people a little bit about what it's about. And of course there are many other stablecoins. How to develop it and, most importantly, learn to use it, implement it and maintain it?
Go of course. So the main view of the USDC is that we founded the company 10 years ago and we can use traditional money, that is, government bonds. And you can represent it in digital currency. But any device can be found anywhere on the public Internet using open protocols, just as we have created email and other protocols that allow us to exchange data or make voice calls over the Internet. Step into the software and you'll know that it enables information sharing and communication where we offer the same for your internet dollar. Five years ago, yes, a little over five years ago, we introduced the USDC. And that was actually the internet dollar protocol. With technology, 10 years ago, it became impossible, in fact, with technology it was possible five years ago. And we got it right: First, we became one of the most regulated companies in our industry, working with banking and payments regulators across the United States, from coast to coast. Money Services also allows us to offer electronic money at a fixed exchange rate in the EU and the UK, for example when you use PayPal or a cash payment application, or, you know, when you use a currency exchange product. In the legacy, let's say, the transfer by Western Union, but in principle these units of electronic money are controlled. So the first legend is out of control. We've been regulated for a long time, but we work with regulators to launch this product, and, you know, we're not connected to any particular company or portfolio, but to the Internet as a whole. It has fueled the growth we've seen in the last five years, something everyone can agree on. And today, as an Internet exchange, we've done over $11 trillion in transactions. And I say too soon, right? It's like talking about the amount of traffic on the Internet in 2002. And then 20 years later, let's imagine how much traffic will be directed to the Internet. In my opinion, this is still a very early technology. But now comes what I call the moment of broadband. The broadband era is upon us and many factors are driving this growth.
[music starts]
Murray: Jason Gierzadas, CEO of Deloitte USA, is a sponsor of this podcast and is joining us today. You're welcome, Jason.
Jason Girzadas : Thank you, Alan. It's very good here.
MURRAY : Jason, ideas about how we work, where we work, when we work, how we work have continued to change since the pandemic. Is it a business issue? Or is it a great business opportunity?
Girzadak : This is a great opportunity. Although the answer already seems obvious to me. Of course, this is a serious set of problems. But at the end of the day, it's an opportunity to create a workplace where people who excel in marketing, especially long-term system talent, staff constraints and constraints, can actually be at work and perform better. . levels. Productivity and a sense of support in everything you do. But I don't think the patterns are clear. And we see many experiences. Hybrid or not, and whatever that means, the true value of a coworking space depends on how technology is implemented in the workplace so that employees and workers feel supported, empowered, and more. Cultural elements associated with diversity, equality, inclusion and a sense of support to be oneself at work? Companies are characterized by a combination of a lack of purpose, new ways to find and connect around you, a strong desire to manage talent, and companies using your workplace. Work process. Earn in new and different ways.
Murray: Jason, thank you for understanding and supporting the leadership .
Girzadas : Thank you.
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Lev-Ram: So we use the word "regulation" several times. So I think we should dive into it. And Circle seems to have long believed that companies and markets should be regulated, not necessarily according to public opinion in society. in the crypto community. So why do you think US law regulates stablecoins and what exactly are they trying to do?
Go of course. It all started 10 years ago when the United States government began to regulate this industry. Therefore, the Ministry of Finance issued a regulation: if you want to be in the middle of the banking system and virtual currency technologies, you must act like a financial institution and you have the responsibility to know your customers. and transaction control. Faced with terrorism, sanctions, fugitives and other threats. It was the law 10 years ago. And in doing so, they establish a series of requirements for any company that wants to be between the banking system, blockchain and digital assets. So that was the foundation for this kind of regulation of remittances and financial services, which was a big deal, and building the foundation allowed us to eventually launch USDC, because it did. This control method. What has really happened in our area is the rapid rise of stablecoins in recent years. And global regulators are scrutinizing stablecoins and the broader cryptocurrency markets. And there you can see two different things. There are trading markets that are better represented by things like finance, Coinbase, or similar trading platforms. And then there are stablecoins that are innovative in the payment system. Money is an invention. So a few years ago there was concern in the international regulatory community that there might be some of that. And with the current financial system, they can be used very broadly and very narrowly. So it was a fair regulatory decision. And in fact, it was the United States that took the initiative. United States through the G7. And then through the G20. There is a group called the Financial Stability Board that oversees all financial regulatory policies in the G20, which he says is a set of recommended policies for each G20 member to manage a stablecoin. In fact, everyone agreed on both. A few years ago, the United States government told Congress as much. "It's really urgent," said Janet Yellen, "it's urgent that Congress act and pass legislation because there could be repercussions." And those can be your real losses, you know? And you know, there were really big problems at stake, especially like Terra and that whole Ponzi scheme debacle. But it was a push. And since these recommendations emerged, we've seen all major G20 members have adopted or are in the process of adopting stablecoins, including Japan, the United Kingdom, the European Union, Singapore, Hong Kong, the United Arab Emirates, and the United States. Joined. In close proximity. To Congress, the presentation of a bill on payments to stablecoin issuers. So there's a lot of progress there.
Murray: Yes, I want to ask you what you said last month. Emeshu Vividu, Eto bilo poktica nationalist visov: V Scazali, Chito us est veibor, kachestve osnovy deny vinternet, or éto odna iz teh dragi strán, Koroyei v pomyanuli. instead of USA what do you mean? How about this vision? How about this in Volnovat?
Aler: Well, the United States gets a lot of benefit from the dominant currency, the dollar. Dollar allows to grant cheap loans to homes and companies. А Dalia Pravitelstva Eto Sozdaet Professional Sredu Dalia Golnoi Torg Ovli Sh. Mechanism Ito sozdaat maya sili vesem mire. And that dollar hegemony has been around for a long time. No Seichas это находыtsya pod sereznoy ugrozoy. It's hard to go a week without hearing about new alliances creating alternative payment systems. We know, you know, totalitarian reasons, Takiye, George, Jonas, Jonas are controlled by the government, which they're trying to build. Thus, competition for days becomes technological competition. А технологическая конкуренця использовать том что я я хоту бы задать вопро с: какой валютой не? Do you want to have a digital dollar? Do you want to have another euro or digital yuan? A. Dolia Sedinny Itatov Ammariki Eto Akivinaya Uguroza, S. Kotoroi and Prihodais Spravlyitsya. This variant, которыy состав в том, чтобы вырваться на бесплатно в осоденн ую на равилах систому Е, S. Horoshim regulirovaniem ochno capitalisma в mirе, а тым проедь на дигигиформые технология. . From Lagodaria Itoi Technology Revelshii Dollari Ovativat Ves Semnoi Shar and Stanovs Yosnyos Finansovoi Grace.
Amster: M. Chito Dolzhenyi Sdelt CEA, Chkoby Vospolzovatsya эtoy vozmozhynst? what if?
Aller: In particular, the United States needs to establish federal regulations, in essence, Похожие песни: 2007. Чейми Активами, which provide security and stability. Like banks that invest money and risk it. İtak, Esli Vý Sozdadite svoego roda Tishrovyu Polnoreservnu Dolarovyu Systemyu, Kotora Esam infrastrukturu, komodo bul det constant obnojavat в Интернете. Ito proishodita. Therefore, the regulatory perimeter is based on strict federal regulatory standards. Eto, Chito, Kak Viznate, Ederalia Rezervnaya Sistema Decivettelno Metn S Ozdaten, Chitoby, iz nih, буду то кебуб, о PayPal, о Sledushula я компания из себя представления. Как вы знате, и можон расематрват как еквиавлент дензних средет на бала нсе, чис-to денезнест то corporate peregistra ция. Then we can release him.
Леv-ራም፡ ቲም ቬረም ፣ እና እኔ ናደምሻ፣ ቺቶ ፖካ ኤቶት ፕሮግረስ ፕሮይስሆ ዳይት ና ፌሮን ቴ ሬጉሊስት፣ е и больше ትራዳይሽን Чto vы ዱመቴ ኦብ эtom? Я имею в vidу, считаете ли вы, что такие компании, как ክበብ, имеют больше | Конечно, традиционные ፊናንስሶቭые учреждения имеют огромную клиентскую базу እና большое вли janie. А как насчет роли, которую они играют сейчас?
አሌር ፡ ያ፣ ያ ዱማዩ፣ ኤቶ ኔምኖ ኤስቪያዛኖስ ተም lnыy zakonoproekt о steйbelkоинах. ለካክ በይቶ ኒ ቢሎ፣ ኤቶ ኦትኖሲያ ከ ኮንክሬትኒም ቮፕሮሳም፣ ኮቶርዬ ኦብ ሱዳሹትስ እንደ መዥዱ ሞንጊሶም. ኢቶ ሲግናሊዚሩት ምኞጂም ሊዲያም ፣ ችቶ эto ፕሮሰሆዳይት። И kogda vы ፖሉቺቴ эtu ያስኖስት, nachnut poyavlyatsya krupnыe kompany. ኢቶ ዞሮቮ. ኢሜንኖ ኤቶሆሆት ፕራቪቴልስቶ ሲኢይ: ኦኖ ዶልዥኖ ሆቴት ፣ ቺቶቢ ቱዳ ፕረ ቪቴል ኮምፓኒ። Today is, конечно, my уже не стартап, нам 10 let и мы довольно значительные раз меры. ባይዘንስ ሴጎንያ Но вы ሆቲቴ፣ ቺቶብы эto sorevnovanye pryslo, እና ባይላ ያስነስት. Так что я надеюсь, что таких будет больше. ኢቶ አይደለም ቶልኮ ቮ ሴዲነንች ታታህ፣ mы ቪዲም эto ና kazhdom rynke. In Japan, this is a brand new brand or Stealth-brand, this is a company, a company that is internet-company, pani, The bankruptcy — vs oni, na primer, находятся в процессе zapuska стейблкоинов. Вы видите ту же модель со стейблкоинами на рынке ЕС. ኢታክ፣ ቪዲቴ፣ ቃክ эto proyshodyt. Теперь, что я думаю о нашей позиции. Мы ሲቺታም ፣ ቺቶ ኤቶ ዴይስትቪቴልኖ ቫዥኖ ፣ ኦሶቤንኖ ዴሊያ ታኪ ደንዘኝ ፕሮቶኮሎ ፣ ግደ ሉስትሮይስትሬስት. Мы считаем, что очень важно иметь надежною ኢሜንኖ ታክ ማይ ዱማም ኦ ሰቤ፡ ከመይ ዱማ ም ኦብ ኤቶም ቃቅ ኦ ናዴጒኖ ኔይትራሊንግ ስትሮ ኢተልኔት ፕሮቶኮል፣ ኤፒአይ ። Мы ንኢያቪላምሺያ ፕረዲቪዥያቲሚ в платежного бизнеса, которым мы управляem. Мы ሆቲም ፣ ቺቶቢ ካዝዲይ ሞግ ኤስፖልዞቫት эty ቬሺ.
Леv-ራም: ኤም ኦቼን ብስትራይ ቮፕሮስ ከ ቫም: роводите с НПО и ООН, чтобы сделать USDC до ступныm для украинских беженцев. Можете ли вы объяснить, ምንድን ነው?
አልለር ፡ ያ፣ አብሶልሹትኖ። Иtak, vy ዝናቴ, ፖ ስዩቲ, эto obeschanye sostoyat ቶም, ቸtobы ፖዝቦልት ሊዮቦሙ ቼል ኦቨኩ ዌት, ዩ. скачать видео - ስኮሮስት ኤንተርኔታ ፕሮፔ ኢኮኖሚስኪ ኤፌክቲቭ ፐሬዳቺ ዳኒህ ቼርዝ ሞን ቴርኔት ፕራክቲፕት። ታክ፣ эtoho obeschanye. И поэтому всеግዳ ቢሎ ኦብሼንዬ, ቺቶ эto mozhet sposobstvovat ሬአልኖይ ፍናንሶቭ . смотреть бесплатно же ремя это может открыть ሉቺ ጉማንታርንዬ ፑቲ . That's it, and this is the starting point for Circle Impact, the bigger story is on the part еrstve с глобальными неправительственными организациями, чтобы облегчить этим неправительственным орга низациям распространение цифровых денег среди людей, которые в них больше всего нуждаются. And so my sozdalí ryad partnerskih отношений для этого, postcolkú my работаем с несколькими агентствами ООН, Верховным комиссаром ООН по делам беженцев, мы работаем с другими международными НПО высшего у ровня, по сути, помогая им. Чтобы направлять цифровые денежные платежи людям с телефонами для использования USDC, они знают, кто эт and poluchateli. Это украинские беженцы. Это, вы знаете, женщины в Афганистане, врачи в Венесуэле, жертвы землетрясения в Сирии и Турции. Я имею в vidу, это действительно важные вещи. I have a dream, which I look at is well-suited to the occasional occasion, which is very close to the day и подвержены коррупции и краже, поэтому большая часть денег никогда не поступает. И это дает им возможность сделать это. Кроме того, мы заключили партнерские отношения с глобальными поставщиками услуг по выводу наличных, так ими как MoneyGram, чтобы вы могли брать цифровые деньги и конвертировать их в местную валюту, где бы вы ни на ходились.
Мюрей: Джереми, это отличный переход к моему последнему вопросу, потому что я хочу перепрыгнуть на 10 л ет vpered, вы уже сказали, может быть, эти типы транзакций составляют 5% рынка, доларового рынка или че го-то еще. No cakim budet mir? Как мир станет луче через 10 лет благодаря тому, что вы делаеTE сегодня? Нарисуйте нам картину социальной ценности этого.
Aller: Итак, есть несколько вещей. It's true that many of them are pregnant or tom, because they're dead, and they're on, because of it, they're still there большей степени основаны на Интернете, а это означает, что мы не думаем о долгосрочной перспективе. больше телефонных звонков. I don't think I'm sorry, and I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I'm sorry. ность напрямую подключаться и вести видеосвязь с кем угодно, произойдет то же самое. деньги, идея трансграничного платежа будет сегодня столь же абсурдна, как трансграничная электронная по чта. По сути, вы знаете, деньги будут перемещаться со скоростью Интернета практически бесплатно. On budget работать с любым устройством, любым программным обеспечением или любым оборудованием. Так что это действительно мощно. Ия думаю, что последствия для общества значительны. Когда мы разбокировали публикацию и и свободные глобальные коммуникации, чистое мировое прои зводство коммуникаций и чистое мировое производство информации возросло абсолютно экспоненциально, как X милиар dov. деньги тоже взорвутся. А когда у вас высокая скорость обращения денег, это действительно корелирует с ростом эономической актив ности, увеличением экономических возможностей.
Мюрей: На самом деле я думаю, что это действительно интересно. Но я должен вам сказать, я сказал, что последний вопрос был последним. Но это всего лишь быстрое продолжение. I was in Grinviche, this was Connecticut, in darkened home, on the silver plate, the children's door ущерб финанасовым операциям, они получают понемногу от каждой нанансовой транзакции и добавляют много ден eg. . Если ваше видение правильное, этот ущерб должен быть уменьшен. Дома в Гринвиче должны быть меньше. Думаешь, мы на этом закончим?
Aller: Absolutely. Я не знаю, станут ли дома в Гринвиче меньше, кажется, что это сообщество постоянно что-to придумывает, но я думаю, что да, platа за проезд изменится. I saw the life, which was published by the unit-economiku of the largest mass news, communication, Izdatelskogo дела и розничной торговли: они все меняются. Все действительно изменились, и продукты стали в 10 раз лучше, и это обязательно произойдет. сейчас Я считаю, что чистый объем экономической платежной деятельности в мире также будет расти. И поэтому он действительно создаст Закон больших чисел, или он создаст очень значительный, вы знаете , масштабируемый бизнес как часть этого. И я также думаю, что, вы знаете, есть ключевая часть финансовой системы, которая представляет собой расширение кредита, который, по сути, является тем, что я называю временной стоимостью денег, помимо людей, которые нуждаются в деньги сейчас. у них их нет, а теперь людям, у которых есть деньги, они не нужны. И я думаю, что эта высокоскоростная цифровая валюта с возможностью программирования таких вещей, как смарт-контракты на блокчейне, также откроет действительно, действительно новые мощные способы предоставления кредитов людям, которые в них нуждаются, предпринимателям, которые в них нуждаются. компаниям и домохозяйствам, которые в этом нуждались по всему миру.
Мюррей: Это здорово. Вы произвели на меня впечатление. А теперь давай выберемся из этой криптозимы в криптовесну, и что ты думаешь, Михал?
Лев-Рам: Крипто Лето, я не знаю,
Мюррей: Криптолето.
Аллер: Когда это станет действительно большим, люди не будут называть это криптовалютой. Знаете, мы больше не говорим «сеть». Мы говорили об Интернете или о чем-то еще, вы знаете, это технологии, которые мы используем, и поэтому я думаю, что когда этот успех невидим.
Лев-Рам: Джереми, большое спасибо.
Аллер: Добро пожаловать. Не за что
Мюррей: Приятно быть с тобой. Спасибо.
[начинается музыка]
«Лидерство Next» редактирует и продюсирует Алексис Хаут. Наш объект — Джейсон Сннелл. Наш исполнительный продюсер — Меган Арнольд. Leadership Next — продукт Fortune Media .
Лидерство Следующие разделы подготовлены редакционной командой Fortune. Взгляды и мнения, выраженные спикерами и гостями подкаста, являются исключительно их собственными и не отражают точку зрения компании «Делойт» или ее сотрудников. «Делойт» также не поддерживает и не поддерживает каких-либо физических или юридических лиц, представленных в разделах.
Эта история первоначально появилась на Fortune.com.
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